WonderTour

Welcome to Lead Wisely by WonderTour This week we're back with episode 129.

We're in a series that we call Trust the Process, where we're learning how do we iterate
to be successful?

How do we both lean into having a structure to the things that we do while being flexible
enough to be able to adapt and grow and learn?

This week we're looking at the Netflix TV series, The Queen's Gambit.

So in the queen's gambit, we have this amazing underdog story of Beth, this child prodigy,
female chess player who stands up against this system that wants to have nothing to do

with her.

as its champion.

And of course she has to go through many trials and tribulations and eventually, you know,
to see if she will overcome.

So Brian, let's start where Beth starts in her journey.

When you're trapped at the bottom of a system, when you're finding yourself as a part of a
system that just deems you as unimportant, what do you do?

What are some steps that we can take, things that we can do in order to improve our
position, improve our purpose?

make an influence on the people that we care about, whatever that might be.

Now this is a great question we find Beth at the beginning of this series very much
trapped at the bottom of system.

She's an orphan after what looks like a very difficult childhood.

She ends up in this orphanage and she's not well regarded by sort of anybody around her.

the power structures that exist have failed her or are not genuinely interested in her
welfare.

And the way that she finds out of course is through the game of chess.

becomes sort of...

borderline obsessed, maybe past borderline obsessed with a game of chess.

that becomes sort of her frame of reference for how to succeed in the world.

she narrows down all of her options to like, just want to spend all my time thinking about
chess and getting really good at chess.

And then I want to spend all my time playing chess and I don't want to care about anything
else.

And it works for her over the course of the series.

She does actually experience increasing levels of local and then national and
international success as part of this.

And I think this is kind of a cool example.

when she's trapped at the bottom of the system, she doesn't do it by leaning into the
system's rules.

She doesn't do it by trying to become the best little obedient girl at the orphanage.

Like she doesn't do it by trying to fit into the roles society is assigned to her.

she kind of toes the line.

she tries, mostly tries to stay out of trouble.

But the thing that unlocks it for her is that she picks a tiny piece of the world that she
could hyper specialize on, that she can control, that she can be really good at.

And she just super leans into that.

And as she builds competence in that little tiny area, then she builds competence in that
area.

She starts to build a reputation.

She starts to attract kindred spirits that like that energy.

that either love the same thing she loves, they love chess, or they just love being around
her because she's got this like hyper competitive fire, or her friend Jolene is just

somebody else that doesn't fit in, in the orphanage and the janitor Mr.

Scheidel that teaches her these are both very low status people in the world, like the
janitor in the basement of the orphanage and the older black girl in the orphanage who was

never going to get adopted.

These are not people that are, you know, that are highly esteemed by her environment.

they have a of a land of misfit toys thing going on, but they're also attracted to her
energy and her willingness to be herself despite the messaging of the system.

And so she's able to find some success in this and that hyper focus and a hyper commitment
to the one topic is really powerful because it gives her something to hold onto.

It gives her something that she can control she can't.

take care of all the problems in her world.

You can't even begin to take care of all the problems in the world.

And indeed, part of the lesson of this series is that she kind of doesn't deal with a lot
of things for a very long time, Focus is a two-sided coin.

But at least it gives her something to hang on to, to really lean into, to build some
confidence, some competence, some ability to demonstrate uniqueness in the world.

And I think that all by itself is not a bad lesson.

Right?

Start with something that you love, that you can control, that is a tiny little piece and
lean into that and then see where it takes you.

Start with something that you love, that you can control, that is a tiny little piece and
lean into that and then see where it takes you.

Yeah, I think that's really good because it's almost the only starting point.

There's no starting point where you have this giant system that deems you as unimportant.

You don't have influence in that system, but somehow you're going to learn all the
different mechanisms of the system, how it functions, how things are biased, and then who

controls what decisions, all this stuff.

And then you're just going to slowly raise your understanding of the entire system all at
once until you understand it well enough to transform it.

That's not really how it works, right?

Like you have to just start over here and where you're passionate and where you have some
understanding of what's going on and just grow that understanding.

And then eventually, as we're going to talk about more in the rest of the episode, you
don't want to just specialize in only one side of the system, which is kind of the trap

that you can end up in here and where we see Beth end up where she is hyper competent
technically at how to do this thing.

How did you chess, Be a competitive chess player, which even chess in the overall global
system is not highly valued necessarily, at least by the United States, maybe by Russia it

is.

But she just has this drive to become really good here.

I think that's a good starting point for most people.

It's just pick that spot and become better at that spot until you know it well enough that
you can start branching out.

Yeah, and I think we love stories here on WONDER TOUR and I think that the story of like,
I am the chosen one that was prophesied to bring balance to the universe or prophesied to

be the dragon reborn or whatever.

Like, okay, that would be cool, but that's mostly, that's not most of us, And the classic
rags to riches Horatio Algar of, my great uncle who is fabulously wealthy left me all of

his money or this, I find this patron who is a philanthropist

that's also not likely to happen to most of us.

So the practical story of like, I'm not a high status person in the world and I need to
demonstrate value in some way and probably just like following the rules every day and

taking my little green pills and eating the food that they tell me to eat and not make any
trouble and singing in the chorus.

Like you can do those things just to keep your head down, right?

But those aren't going to make you successful.

They're not going to raise your status in the world.

They're going to, let the system continue to disregard you.

And so there's this balancing act of like towing the line just enough that you can go
figure out how to be yourself, but then leaning super hard into like, okay, great.

What is, what is the thing that will cause people to notice me?

What is the thing where I can actually get some traction and make a difference.

And to be clear, this is an incredibly selfish viewpoint.

And that's the, the other part of this failure mode that we see, right?

Is that where this goes is that

you are all about yourself.

And one of the things we talk about in Wonder Tour over and over again is that leadership
is not about you.

And this first episode, this first part of the arc here, looking at Beth's journey, she
doesn't start as a leader and she doesn't end as a leader.

in the first episodes of this series, she is just learning how to become a hero, just
learning how to like have some agency in her life.

But that's a necessary prerequisite.

Like you're not ready to be a leader.

you're not gonna have the opportunity to be a leader unless you first demonstrate some
value in the world, unless you're doing something that other people admire, unless you

have an opportunity to be for leadership.

And so there's, you we can see some examples of really powerful mentoring in this series,
but Beth herself is not a leadership avatar, at least not at this point.

No.

And I think Brian, one thing that if we weren't looking at the Queen's Gambit in some
other examples that we'd say to the as an answer to the question, when the system deems

you unimportant, what do you do is it would be to find people to serve, find somebody you
can help find somebody that you can make a meaningful difference in their life.

And we'll talk about that in the next episode or two as we talk about Queen's Gambit.

But that's not where she's at, to be honest.

Beth does not think of that as an approach.

that was never modeled to her as a possible option of how she could find a purpose in this
system that is oppressing her.

So instead she goes with this route, which we can still learn something from.

Hi, I'm Brian Nutwell.

And we are on a journey to lead wisely, to become better leaders by touring fantastic
worlds and inspiring lore by going on this Wonder Tour.

We connect leadership concepts to story contexts because it sticks to our brains better.

You can find out more at wondertourpodcast.com or on YouTube by searching Lead Wisely.

All one word.

on wondertourpodcast.com you will find our fabulous merch which Drew is modeling for us
today and you too should be wearing one these in public.

Hehehehehe

Alright, so back to Beth and her journey to become, if not yet a leader, at least a human
that is regarded as valuable by other humans.

It does work, this super narrow focus and leaning into this role as like, this is the
thing that seems natural to me.

And so I'm going to see if I can take it somewhere.

There's this whole world out there that's organized around chess.

And that's something that lights me up.

We're just going to lean super hard into that to the exclusion of basically everything
else.

It does work, right?

she enjoys increasing success.

She makes a little bit of money.

she gets adopted by this couple.

They're not a good model of successful relationship.

They're not a good model of leadership, but she ends up forming a relationship with her,
with her stepmother Alma.

and she's winning increasingly larger tournaments, starting to travel around the country,
started to dress a little bit better.

She goes to high school.

She's initially disregarded as wearing terrible clothes and having no social sense.

But then as she becomes successful as a.

chess player and she has a little bit of money and she's buying some better clothes and
she's just walking around with more confidence.

Then people start to notice her and look at her in a different light.

Even though they maybe don't care anything about chess at all.

they, know, none of these people would ever spend 10 minutes of their life trying to
understand what it is that she does, but they recognize the, the discipline of getting

good at something.

They recognize the aura of success.

And that's a, that's a real thing, right?

That's, that's a tangible thing.

You sort of walk around with that.

posture of like, I figured something out that I'm good at.

I'm really focused on something that will attract some kindred spirits that will get you
some social credibility.

So think this is a good spot, Brian.

I'm interested to bring in a theme that we talk about a lot in Wander Tour.

This is a theme of the hero's journey and the theme is either big world, small world or
small world, big world.

And what that theme normally means is that on the hero's journey, at the beginning of the
journey, we generally find our hero in a small world, The scope of their influence, their

control,

their ability to make a change in the world.

not very large.

It's in fact too small for their ambition.

They want to be able to do something more.

But by going on this journey, they learn about a larger world.

They experience some sort of a scope increase and they recognize that they're not
competent enough to exact a change in that larger scope of influence.

And thus they must...

Find a mentor, go on this journey in order to develop a level of competence to be able to
build up a team, whatever is required in order to actually exact the change to accomplish

the mission in this larger world.

So I think there is almost like a critical analysis that we can do here of the big world,
small world theme that we see in the Queen's Gambit.

Yeah, I think so.

And I think that it's fun to think about it this way.

In one sense, it's very classical, right?

She starts in this orphanage.

She starts with very few friends.

She starts with very few prospects.

She starts with not knowing her place in the world.

And then she picks up some mentors and picks up some opportunities and literally travels
farther and farther with every episode, right?

Okay, so she's gonna have the high school teacher come in and play chess against him.

she's gonna go to the high school and play the high school kids.

She's going to go to the state championship.

She's going to go to Las Vegas.

She's going to go to the national championships, go to the Mexico and Russia.

Her actual world that she moves in becomes larger.

She becomes more immersed in the sort of international community.

She becomes a celebrated cause of the young American women playing against the Russians at
the height of the Cold War.

On a geographical basis, she's making her world larger.

And she is succeeding on a larger stage, and she's just more people noticing her.

On a personal basis though, it's completely inverted.

She makes her world smaller and smaller.

She is so deeply leaned into chess as a metaphor for life that all of her relationships
are competitions and transactions.

All of the people she interacts with are either better than her at something or worse than
her at something.

And so she either resents them or disparages them.

She shuts out everybody around her continuously as she moves up this ladder.

She's always just trying to beat the next person.

She's always just trying to prove the next thing, but she never manages to build any sort
of sense of community.

She never manages to build any substantial relationships.

She has sort of a functional relationship with her stepmother in that they're both, yeah,
they're, it's transactional and they're both, you know, high functioning alcoholics and

they're both, you know, as you said,

could say Alma is a high-functioning alcoholic, but at least Beth at that point is.

Yes.

Well, and as you said in the pre-show, I think at no point during almost this entire
series, do we look at Beth and be like, man, I wish I had that lifestyle, As successful as

she is, as charming and skilled as she is, you don't look at her and go, man, that looks
cool, right?

Every once in a while you look at Luke Skywalker or something, you're like, okay, that
would be cool.

I'd love to be learning to be a Jedi.

But you look at Beth and you're like, man, she's not, she's having a hard time.

She's not figuring it out.

Right.

is primarily a tragedy.

And you're told that from the first scene when we see the car crash.

so, yeah, immediately your brain is like, yeah, there's nothing to learn here.

And there's some empathy I can have and all kinds of great stuff, but I don't necessarily
aspire to be like Beth.

so let's bring us into the mountaintop here then.

what is the scene that sort of for this episode talking about Beth's initial journey, what
sort of anchors us to the message that we're talking about?

so we're kind of talking about this widening of her world publicly and this narrowing of
her world privately, So we thought there was this really good spot.

It's in episode three.

And this is a moment where we kind of see a

almost literal widening and narrowing of these two worlds.

So our moment is going to be this engagement with the Apple Pie Club.

so up into this point in this show, has always been left out by everybody, everybody
basically throughout the entire story, especially the kids at school who don't see any

value in her or why they should let her into their circle.

And finally,

We get this moment where the apple pie club, this prestigious community of kids decides
that Beth has done something that makes her worthy of inviting them into the club.

so Beth is like, okay, like tepidly interested because again, she is interested in
improving her status.

She's lets us know that

She's lonely and she knows that she's lonely.

She doesn't like being looked down upon and disparaged and discouraged.

That's a good point.

Yeah, she knows.

She gets there to this girl's house and she sits down and she sees that they're all
dancing and talking about boys and she immediately feels like this just isn't her.

And within a few minutes she stands up, she steals some liquor from the liquor shop and
she goes home and she continues to revisit her past.

She convinces herself or tells herself that she just has to become better at chess and it
isn't about the apple pie club, know, the widening of the overall narrative for her.

But in reality, inside of her, this is the narrowing of her private life, where she once
again makes the decision to not have any sort of a relationship with others

And this is so emblematic of the pattern that she follows throughout this series, the
pattern that I think a lot of hyper successful, hyper narrow focus people follow, she's

doubling down on the things that she loves.

She's doubling down on her ambition.

She's doubling down on herself.

She's doubling down on being really good at something to the exclusion of all else.

And this is both good and bad, if she goes to the apple pie club and she's like, you know
what, I've succeeded.

Chess has got me to the point where the cool girls at school think that I'm dressing well
enough that I can hang out with them.

Great.

Now I can just enjoy high school and I'm to dance with the girls and watch stupid TV shows
and talk about boys and go to prom and just have like a normal life.

I'm part of the system.

Like she could do that at this point.

She could absolutely say, yay, the system has accepted me.

I've succeeded.

Chess accomplished his job.

I'm going to

settled here.

And she doesn't.

She doesn't park it there.

She's like, no, no, I'm quite much more enjoying being hyper focused on this other thing
and being hyper competitive.

And I got more ladders to climb and bigger ambitions.

And so she leans into herself.

She leans into her bigger goals.

She leans into not trying to broaden her scope, like you said, not trying to broaden her
social world, but keeping her focus very narrow so that she can continue to climb the

ladder in the chess world.

And that is powerful.

That's what allows her to continue to succeed is she's kind of doubling down on this
focus, but it's also incredibly limiting.

The flip side of focus is you're bad at everything else, right?

You're abandoning everything else.

And this is emblematic of her journey, but this is also a pattern that we see, right?

When you start from nothing, you have no social skills and you have no value to society.

You got to pick how you're going to build up.

And one of the patterns is like, I'm just going to do this one very narrow thing.

and you get to the top of the mountain and that's all you've got.

Mm-hmm.

That's your identity and that's a recipe for an identity crisis basically Right where you
have made one thing your identity and when you realize that like like you said We always

say journey versus destination what happens when you get to the top of the mountain and
you've actually summited the peak and that was the only thing you ever thought about and

What happens if it's not as fulfilling as you thought it was gonna be?

Or what's worse, which happens to Beth in the next couple episodes, what if you get close
to the top of the mountain and you lose and you don't have anything else, right?

You've defined your entire existence around all that.

the only thing that matters to me is just winning along this narrow axis.

And you've got nothing to fall back on.

You've got no people to go cry on their shoulder because you pushed them all away and
you've got no other skills and you've got no other coping mechanisms.

this narrow mindedness is the failure mode of the prodigy, right?

It's a very brutal mode of success.

you're hyper focused in whatever you're doing and you don't develop other adult skills,
then you're vulnerable to like, it might still not work.

At least not the first time.

Yeah.

And think there's a little bit of an application in this mountain top with the Apple pie
club for each of us, because I'm sure that whatever your way to distract yourself away of

choices, hopefully it's not as, painful as Beth's is, but for some of us, myself included,
it has been at times.

It's the recognition of the widening narrowing complex for me.

It's like, yeah, it's easy to convince yourself that what you're doing is fine because
it's widening your chest horizons because it's doing one thing good, but they're basically

the facing of reality that that's not all there is.

You know, if you're pushing your family members away in order to do this, if you're not
ever developing deep relationships, if every relationship that she has that has any hint

of

becoming successfully romantic, she cannot possibly accept, right?

It's like not fertile soil for that at all because she can't let anybody know what she
actually thinks because of that, she can't even understand how they think or why they're

doing what they're doing.

It's just, she never goes beyond that.

Everything is always a game of chess to her, like you said before.

Yeah.

So I like this as the moment because she behaves this way over and over again, and it does
lead her to some big things, but it also leads her to, she kind of papers over all of her

problems, right?

She keeps running away from, she keeps covering them with drinking, and she keeps like not
dealing with forming human relationships.

So I think maybe a useful way to look at this is just

going outside in, right?

The way people in the world are viewing Beth, both in the high school and then in the
larger world, the chess people and the way others are viewing her is through two lenses,

right?

If you're part of this system, you get viewed in two lenses.

One lens is that, you successful in this system?

Have you demonstrated some value?

Have you shown that you're really good at something?

Are you making any contribution?

And she figures out how to do that through chess, right?

Okay, she's got a place in the world.

She's...

representing the United States, she's representing Kentucky, she's able to be really good
at something and that's magnetic.

People love being around somebody that's great at something.

But the other ones they'll have is your relationship with them.

How are you in the elevator together?

How are you when you're just having a quiet conversation?

How are you when they ask for an autograph?

And she fails that test over and over again.

She's demonstrated some value, but she hasn't figured out how to interact with people.

And so all of the people that try to connect with her, she pushes away and all the people
that aren't presently at this very moment valuable to her.

she never circles back to them, right?

she gets a lot of value out of a relationship with Mr.

Shadel, the janitor.

He gets her into the chess world.

He gets her into the talk of the high school people.

he helps her move forward.

But she leaves and never goes back to him and then finds out later that he'd been
following her the whole time.

she stiff arms, like you said, a number of romantic suitors and or potential people,
collaborators in the chess world, just through inability connect.

Yeah.

So honestly, where we're at here is reaching out to other people.

I think that's one thing that we can do if we're feeling like we're at a spot where
there's just, yes, I've made my career.

I've made my whatever, right?

You could be your kids.

my kids are great.

They do so well.

They're, they're just so successful.

But it's like, but what, what's the thing that's narrowing in exchange?

And is that okay?

And is that in fact, like if it's like Beth, is that your shame?

Is that your, thing that you struggle to be able to be vulnerable with other people about?

Cause that's our opportunity.

That's where we can grow.

And really this is such a great series because you can pick that up without sitting and
talking about it on wonder tour.

You you watch the last couple episodes and if you feel like you're Beth at all, can be
encouraging to you that.

There is hope.

My life isn't a tragedy.

I can do something different.

So let's talk about our practical application here.

In this episode, we've up into this point kind of talked about the failure mode of the
prodigy, going too narrow and not going wide enough and how sometimes you have to go

narrow in order to be successful in order to learn to navigate the system that you find
yourself in.

that if you go too narrow, you end up squashing everything else in your life to the point
where.

You look around you and what is it really that you have?

You might be a great chess player, but you've plateaued in the example of Beth.

So Brian, talk to us about our practical application here.

What can we do?

What can we learn with this information?

Yeah, think we're certainly not saying that focusing on getting extraordinarily good at
something is a bad idea.

We're certainly not saying that.

There's a real lesson here that is going to get you social currency, that is going to help
you figure out who you are, confidence and competence build each other and that will

attract like-minded spirits.

All that is really good.

it's a two-sided coin and...

maybe you shouldn't do that to the exclusion of all else, right?

If that's 80 % of your time, maybe you should think about spending 20 % of your time like,
all right, are there people in your orbit that you could be helping come up behind you?

Are there people who have helped you that you should maybe express appreciation to or that
you could maintain those relationships and we see Beth failing those tests.

We see her so focused on herself, so focused on her ambitions, so focused on her
obsessions.

and so unwilling to admit anything resembling weakness, right?

That she doesn't really ever have a real conversation with other human.

She doesn't really ever, you know, build, have a relationship that builds up rather than
down.

and so I think, yeah, the.

to have that one conversation with her that one time, right?

Where he's actually telling her something and asking her about herself and she just like
immediately starts talking about chess again.

Right, right.

And she sees, like she calls Benny on the same problem later.

Like she has a moment with Benny where they, you know, they spend the night together and
then, you know, he's immediately starts talking about Jess she sees that he's kind of got

the same failure modes, right?

He's a little bit of, you know, a little bit obsessive, a little bit all about himself, a
little bit all about his ego.

And so she's like, yeah, I can't, that doesn't, that doesn't work for me either.

But she doesn't recognize how much of that is herself.

So I think that just like,

looking at yourself through the lens of the people around you, especially the lens of the
people around you that you know are trying to help you.

The lens of the people around you that sincerely like you and could benefit from your
attention.

And just think about that a little bit.

How are you having an influence on them?

Could you share some of what you've learned?

Could you share some of your success in a way that builds that up?

up until the last eight minutes of this entire series We don't see Beth having that
realization but part of the reason we're rooting for her is because she's charming and

talented and driven and we could sort of recognize and want to celebrate that and part of
reason that we don't ever want to be her is because we're seeing that she's just she's

just leaving devastation in her wake and Kind of spiraling herself into an increasingly
worse

place by refusing to engage with anything other than this sort of competitive
one-upmanship ranking based view of the world that is inherent to chess.

Yeah, there's a complete lack of understanding of what leadership is if she even
understands that it exists at all in this world, right?

For her, everybody exists as an individual and it's a competition.

And upon reflection later on, I think she's able to start to see how people were leaders
in her life and how that could be a path that she could follow.

But Brian, I you get you have a simple model here for us for being a leader.

because to be a leader is to influence others.

It's for people to choose to follow you.

And you might also follow them.

It's not a one way road, but people have to choose to follow you.

So talk to me about, you know, kind of the simple, simple model for leadership.

I think it's the union of these two things.

The way people are gonna view you, as we said earlier, is your impact in the world, you're
demonstrating some value, you're demonstrating a new viewpoint, you're demonstrating that

you can make changes, that you can make something better.

That's a hook that people will latch onto that they'll want to be your friend.

They'll want to follow you.

They'll want to join your team.

They'll want to support your initiatives.

Right.

But then the other half of it is the how, what are their individual small interactions
with you like?

Are you treating them with respect?

Are you treating them as if you care about their outcomes as well as your outcomes?

Are you taking the time when you don't have to take the time?

Are you using the word we instead of the word I?

Right.

Those interactions are the necessary counterpoint to it.

you can be in a room with somebody who's accounted an extraordinary leader or an
extraordinarily successful person.

And if they're the one in the basketball team that is always taking all of the shots and
never passing, doesn't make you want to be on their team.

Right.

Even if they're amazing, even if they're extraordinary and it's helpful to have them
around, that doesn't make them a leader.

so, right.

They are, they, they are likely a hero, right.

You know, so.

Heroism opens the door to leadership halfway, but empathy and community and engagement is
what seals the deal.

Yeah, I love how you said that.

It's just so simple.

People are going to view you by your relationship with them, by the impact that you have
on the world.

It's going to be that simple for you.

For me, it's about the relationship that you have with somebody is about the little
things.

It's about the reaching out.

It's about responding to their communication.

It's about remembering things about them.

It's about sacrificing your time, your energy, your resources for them when it's not
required of you or when there's nothing you're going to necessarily gain immediately in

response to that.

It's about listening to them, having empathy for them.

And then your impact on the world.

This is about your philosophy and your action.

Have you developed a viewpoint that's more than just yourself in the world?

Have you collaborated and built a mission that's venerable, that's worth following, that
creates a better state in the world?

And then are you acting on that vision?

Are people seeing that what you're doing, even if it's just little things, it can start
with the little things, but that it's making a difference.

I think if we reach the intersection of that, that is the beginning of leadership.

I think if we reach the intersection of that, that is the beginning of leadership.

Yeah, absolutely.

And that's really well said.

And the reason we do this crazy thing called Wonder Tour is that if those questions are
too abstract for you, if those questions are too uncomfortable and difficult to answer,

just look at these characters who am I today?

In my actions today, in that meeting, in that basketball game, in that interaction with
the person that I just met.

Was I Beth?

Was I all about me?

Was I all about my goals?

Was I all about transactions?

Or was I Jolene or Mr.

Scheidel or somebody who just completely took the time to try to make their life a little
bit better because we found some shared humanity, right?

You who am I being in this situation?

And that's all we're doing here is these stories can help us look at it through the lens
of like, this is a character archetype that I recognize.

Which one of these characters do I want to be?

Which one actually was I in the last 10 minutes?

Which one actually was I in the last year?

Yeah, Brian.

And if it's painful to have that realization, even when you're looking at the Queen's
Gambit or your favorite story, then we're going to talk about that in episode two.

What does that mean?

What do we do with that?

Because the fact that it's painful, that there's a gap that you've recognized that you
aren't the person that you thought you were, you aren't as empathetic as understanding as

you thought, or you aren't viewed that way by others.

That's an opportunity.

The good news is you're going to wake up in the morning and have another chance to decide.

The good news is you're going to wake up in the morning and have another chance to decide.

So look forward to talking about that.

Next episode we'll wrap up our discussion of the Queen's Gambit.

that's all for this episode.

Thanks for joining us once again on our journey to become better leaders, to lead wisely.

We hope you join us next week.

In the meantime, just remember, as always, character is destiny.